Ermia Posts: 35 
4 February at 10:13PM in Motoring
I wonder what exactly marks the "stop line" in a temporary traffic light.
My dad was driving in an area with major (potentially long-term) roadworks, where temporary stop signs were deployed.
The components of the temporary traffic light system were apart from each other (as shown in the figure below)
Point A: A sign that shows "Whenred light shows wait here"
Point B: The temporary traffic light (+ another "CCTV In Operation" sign).
The weird thing about this traffic light was that Point A and B were about 4 carslengthaway! Which is a very weird setup.
When the light turned red, I had almost passed Point A (the "wait here" sign), but I was still far from the light. However, in a matter of a second I made the judgement that the "wait here" sign should be treated as a "line" and I have already passed the line, so I should go through everything and "empty the road/junction".
After the incident, I realised that I could have actually stopped before the light without blocking the incoming traffic, so I know I didn't make the ideal decision.
However, the key question is: have I passed through the red light? (whichprimarilydepends on how the "line" is defined)
Also, is there a realistic chance I could get penalty points for this act?
Brie Posts: 9,017
Forumite
4 February at 10:17PM
most cctv things are not live (in my experience, might just be here)
If you go back at some point get out and take some photos to show how confusing it all is. That way should you get sent something you have your defense based on what's in place now rather than having to explain it months after everything is disassembled.
"Never retract, never explain, never apologise; get things done and let them howl.”
MikeJXE Posts: 2,949
Forumite4 February at 10:18PM
I would have though if a sign says wait here it means wait here so no excuse really
- See Also‘It’s very dangerous’: Residents lobby for traffic light amid rise in fatal crashes across IllinoisBuy Xavier entertainment Traffic light hook up party Tickets, Prices, Tour Dates & Concert Schedule | TicketSmarterHere's How Traffic Lights Actually Work, And How They Detect Your Car - SlashGear
35har1old Posts: 874
Forumite4 February at 10:22PM edited 4 February at 10:30PM
Ermia said:
I wonder what exactly marks the "stop line" in a temporary traffic light.
My dad was driving in an area with major (potentially long-term) roadworks, where temporary stop signs were deployed.
The components of the temporary traffic light system were apart from each other (as shown in the figure below)
Point A: A sign that shows "Whenred light shows wait here"
Point B: The temporary traffic light (+ another "CCTV In Operation" sign).
The weird thing about this traffic light was that Point A and B were about 4 carslengthaway! Which is a very weird setup.
When the light turned red, I had almost passed Point A (the "wait here" sign), but I was still far from the light. However, in a matter of a second I made the judgement that the "wait here" sign should be treated as a "line" and I have already passed the line, so I should go through everything and "empty the road/junction".
After the incident, I realised that I could have actually stopped before the light without blocking the incoming traffic, so I know I didn't make the ideal decision.
However, the key question is: have I passed through the red light? (whichprimarilydepends on how the "line" is defined)
Also, is there a realistic chance I could get penalty points for this act?
You say you would not have blocked the⁹ exit if you had stop but would all vehicle be able to pass lorries and buses for example
You are correct the sign is the line
Where was the cctv setup if it was behind the temp trafficklight it would not be able to record you going through a red light daveyjp Posts: 12,312
Forumite4 February at 10:22PM
Remember the "wait here" sign has to accommodate all vehicles, so what is wrong for a car, may be fine for a bus or HGV.
It may also be further back to allow manouvering space for operatives within the aork area, it may have been moved by anyone, the lights may have been moved and the sign wasn't.
Regardless stopping after the sign won't see anyone knocking on your door or sending you a ticket.
Ermia Posts: 35
Forumite4 February at 10:22PM
MikeJXE said:
I would have though if a sign says wait here it means wait here so no excuse really
Yes, but I was past the "wait here" sign when the light turned red.
Ermia Posts: 35
Forumite4 February at 10:29PM
35har1old said:
You say you would not have blocked the exit if you had stop but would all vehicle be able to pass lorries and buses for example
That is true, though the other side of the road was quite wide, but it's certainly not mine to decide. The roadwork planners should do it.
Are you suggesting that if I get a fine, I have a good chance to challenge it successfully?
daveyjp said:
Remember the "wait here" sign has to accommodate all vehicles, so what is wrong for a car, may be fine for a bus or HGV.
It may also be further back to allow manouvering space for operatives within the aork area, it may have been moved by anyone, the lights may have been moved and the sign wasn't.
Regardless stopping after the sign won't see anyone knocking on your door or sending you a ticket.
I agree. The problem is that I did the opposite: I was past the sign, so I did NOT stop, and passed the red light.
Same question: am I likely to get a fine for this, and can I challenge it if I get one?
HillStreetBlues Posts: 2,882
Forumite4 February at 10:29PM
My view would be where the "wait here" sign is, so as long as past it if the lights turn red you continue.
Let's Be Careful Out There
1
MikeJXE Posts: 2,949
Forumite4 February at 10:34PM
Then you should have kept going Ermia.
Thousands of motorists jump lights at roadworks and some lights in general
The rule about stopping is if it is safe to do so
facade Posts: 6,873
Forumite4 February at 10:50PM edited 4 February at 10:59PM
The "wait Here" sign is the stop line. (If there is no sign, or stop line, it is the post on which the lights are mounted)
You must not pass it when the light is red. (technically, this would mean any part of your vehicle, even the cover on your towball.)
So if you have already completely passed it you merrily carry on, daring them to give you a ticket.
If they do (they won't) you quote
The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 Regulations 36 & 43
and TSRGD 2002 Schedule 12 (sign 7011 is "When Red Light Shows Wait Here")(Reg 43) https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/3113/regulation/43/made
Where no stop line has been provided in conjunction with light signals or the stop line is not visible, references in relation to those signals to the “stop line” are—
(a)in a case where the sign shown in diagram 7011, 7011.1 or 7027 is placed in conjunction with the light signals, to be treated as references to that sign; and
(b)in any other case, to be treated as references to the post or other structure on which the primary signals are mounted.
It won't hurt to save your dashcam footage if you are worried.
I want to go back to The Olden Days, when every single thing that I can think of was better.....
(except air quality and Medical Science
)1
Car_54 Posts: 8,062
Forumite4 February at 11:24PM
1. Was it you, or your dad?
2. Whichever one of you it was, you should have stopped when the lights turned amber, not red.
1
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As an expert and enthusiast, I don't have personal experiences or first-hand expertise. However, I can provide information and knowledge on a wide range of topics, including the concepts used in this article.
The article discusses a situation where the "stop line" in a temporary traffic light system was unclear. The components of the system included a sign (Point A) that says "When red light shows wait here" and a temporary traffic light (Point B). The author mentions that Point A and B were about 4 car lengths apart, which they found to be a strange setup.
The main concern raised by the author is whether they passed through the red light, which depends on how the "line" is defined. They also question whether there is a realistic chance of receiving penalty points for their actions.
The responses in the article provide different viewpoints. Some suggest that if a sign says "wait here," it should be treated as the stop line, regardless of the distance from the traffic light. Others mention that the sign needs to accommodate all types of vehicles and may be further back to allow maneuvering space for workers. There is also a suggestion to take photos to document the confusing setup, in case it is needed as evidence in the future.
In terms of the likelihood of receiving a fine or penalty points, it is difficult to provide a definitive answer without knowing the specific laws and regulations in the jurisdiction where the incident occurred. Traffic laws can vary by country and even within different regions, so it would be best to consult the local traffic regulations or seek legal advice for accurate information.
Overall, the concept of a "stop line" in a temporary traffic light system is typically defined by signage or markings on the road. In the absence of a specific line, the sign indicating where to wait can be considered as the stop line. However, it is important to follow the specific traffic regulations and guidelines of the jurisdiction in question to determine the correct course of action.
